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DeikkieD
Maciej Celuch
twixt.in.DEFAULT.174 (LG)

This game (LG)

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On 20180313 at 15:03,
nie_wiesz
said:
Really good game by DeikkieD.
Until
30.m11
I was in a loosing position. I was lucky that
31.l11
was played by white  thanks to that I could gain
32.l13
for free.
And then white could do nothing to stop black from connecting right edge:

32.l13
33.m9
34.p10
35.n8
36.j12
37.p12
38.p13
So where was the winning move for white at 31.* ?
I leave it for now as an open question.
On 20180317 at 05:33,
twixter
said:

20.k14
might have been better for black.

31.m9
32.l13
33.p13
34.n13
35.q15
36.q16
37.r17
how's that?
On 20180317 at 06:37,
twixter
said:

31.m9
32.l9
33.p12
34.n13
35.q15
36.p17
37.t18
is another variation.
On 20180317 at 16:04,
Alan Hensel
said:
That last variation does not seem so obvious to me. What about

31.m9
32.l9
33.p12
34.n13
35.q15
and then
36.r16
?
37.s16
38.p15
, or
37.s14
38.p17
39.t16
40.t20
, or perhaps
37.s14
38.p17
39.t17
40.u17
41.v16
42.t19
43.t20
44.w16
45.s18
46.t15
...
What am I missing?
On 20180317 at 20:00,
twixter
said:
Okay q15 does not work, how about 
31.m9
32.l9
33.p12
34.n13
35.s16
On 20180317 at 20:52,
Alan Hensel
said:

31.m9
32.l9
33.p12
34.n13
35.s16
seems like overreach... Maybe
36.r13
?
37.r14
38.p14
39.s12
40.s11
41.t10
42.q7
?
37. ?
On 20180318 at 12:55,
twixter
said:
Heh so how about Q11 instead of P12

31.k8
32.k11
33.m13
34.l9
35.q11
36.n13
37.s16
Or
34.m9
35.p8
36.n13
37.l11
38.l7
39.n10
On 20180318 at 17:35,
Alan Hensel
said:
Yeah, starting with k8 or m13 or a combination of both seems more promising, but your line

31.k8
32.k11
33.m13
34.l9
35.q11
36.n13
37.s16
appears to be vulnerable to coignhammer attack:
38.r16
then
39.q15
40.p15
41.u17
42.r14
or
39.q17
40.s14
?
I have not analyzed your other variation yet.
On 20180318 at 19:50,
twixter
said:
Not ready to give up on my line yet:

31.k8
32.k11
33.m13
34.l9
35.q11
36.n13
37.s16
38.r16
39.q15
40.p15
41.v16
42.r14
43.v12
44.s12
45.t11
46.t10
47.u9
48.q7
49.u5
On 20180318 at 21:10,
Alan Hensel
said:
Haha, nice.
However:

31.k8
32.k11
33.m13
34.l9
35.q11
36.n13
37.s16
38.r16
39.q15
40.p15
41.v16
42.r14
43.v12
...
and then
44.t13
, threatening w12 or u15... so
45.w14
and then ...
46.s10
47.u9
48.r8
49.u5
50.v9
51.t11
52.u7
53.r10
54.n6
?
On 20180319 at 01:28,
twixter
said:
Okay V12 was too ambitious. 
31.k8
32.k11
33.m13
34.l9
35.q11
36.n13
37.s16
38.r16
39.q15
40.p15
41.v16
42.r14
43.t13
44.s13
45.r12
46.q12
47.v12
or
44.u13
45.v12
I wonder if this is the line Maciej had in mind. There's probably a simpler alternative.
On 20180319 at 03:35,
Alan Hensel
said:
Yeah. There must be something simpler. I'm just not seeing it. That line seems to work, though.
On 20180320 at 07:58,
Florian Jamain
said:
Something like this?

30.n10
31.k8
32.n6
On 20180320 at 13:11,
Alan Hensel
said:
That doesn't answer the question... the question is, given the state of the game up to and including 
30.m11
, how can White win? (Clearly, not
31.L11
)
"So where was the winning move for white at 31.* ?"
twixter's last suggestion seems to work, but it's really long and complicated... Is there a shorter, simpler way?
On 20180320 at 16:56,
twixter
said:
Well Maciej's question isn't the mandatory topic here.

30.n10
31.m11
how should black proceed?
On 20180320 at 18:25,
Florian Jamain
said:
With the same move no?

30.n10
31.m11
32.n6
On 20180320 at 21:48,
nie_wiesz
said:
Ok, I'll tell you what I had in mind. I was thinking about this:

31.m9
32.l9
33.p12
34.n13
35.r15
and then for example:

31.m9
32.l9
33.p12
34.n13
35.r15
36.q16
37.t16
38.q7
39.n8
40.r14
41.s13
42.s12
43.t11
44.t10
45.u9
46.r9
47.u5
 white wins.
I'm really curious why you haven't check
35.r15
? Do I made mistake somewhere or it's just a simple white win?
David, I think your solution is not correct :

31.k8
32.k11
33.m13
34.l9
35.q11
36.n13
37.s16
38.r16
39.q15
40.p15
41.v16
42.t13
and then
43.v12
44.s11
or
43.u14
44.s11
45.r13
46.t17
Florian, I agree that
30.n10
was win for black.
for example:

30.n10
31.m11
32.n6
33.q7
34.p5
35.t4
36.r4

30.n10
31.m11
32.n6
33.q7
34.p5
35.s4
36.t8
37.r6
38.p10
On 20180320 at 21:54,
nie_wiesz
said:
Or 
30.n10
31.m11
32.n6
33.p8
34.p5
35.s4
36.q7
37.t6
38.r9
39.r10
40.q11
41.q12
42.p13
On 20180320 at 22:02,
nie_wiesz
said:
ups, this could be interesting : 
30.n10
31.m11
32.n6
33.p8
34.p5
35.s4
36.q7
37.t6
38.r9
39.r10
40.q11
41.s12
On 20180321 at 04:17,
twixter
said:
Nie_wiesz how about 
31.m9
32.l9
33.p12
34.n13
35.r15
36.s15
37.t14
38.q16
39.s16
40.t20
I agree my line is busted. I'll keep looking. In the other line, how about 
30.n10
31.m11
32.n6
33.p8
34.p5
35.s4
36.q7
37.t6
38.r9
39.r10
40.q11
41.s12
42.r14
43.t15
44.s15
45.r16
46.q16
47.u13
48.t20
On 20180321 at 11:52,
Alan Hensel
said:

31.m9
32.l9
33.p12
34.n13
35.r15
36.s15
37.t14
38.q16
39.s16
40.t20
looks busted after
41.q17
42.p17
43.r20
. But maybe I can fix it!
36.r18
37.r19
and then
38.s15
 and I don't see anything White can do.
39.t14
40.q16
41.u16
42.t19
, nope.
On 20180321 at 13:46,
Florian Jamain
said:
Yep Alan!
36.r18
is saving all of this.
So it's still a win for black here.
On 20180321 at 17:14,
twixter
said:
Thanks Alan!
If white does not have a win at move 31, how about earlier in the game?
On 20180322 at 17:32,
nie_wiesz
said:
Ohh, My bad ;) ! Nice Alan, thank you. I've totally missed (
31.m9
32.l9
33.p12
34.n13
35.r15
36.r18
)
36.r16
. So,yes, it seems to be a black win ;)
On 20180322 at 17:39,
nie_wiesz
said:
I meant
36.r18
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Until 30.m11 I was in a loosing position. I was lucky that 31.l11 was played by white  thanks to that I could gain 32.l13 for free.
And then white could do nothing to stop black from connecting right edge:
 32.l13 33.m9 34.p10 35.n8 36.j12 37.p12 38.p13
So where was the winning move for white at 31.* ?
I leave it for now as an open question.
31.m9 32.l13 33.p13 34.n13 35.q15 36.q16 37.r17 how's that?
31.m9 32.l9 33.p12 34.n13 35.q15 and then 36.r16?
37.s16 38.p15, or 37.s14 38.p17 39.t16 40.t20, or perhaps 37.s14 38.p17 39.t17 40.u17 41.v16 42.t19 43.t20 44.w16 45.s18 46.t15 ...
What am I missing?
seems like overreach... Maybe 36.r13?
37.r14 38.p14 39.s12 40.s11 41.t10 42.q7 ?
37. ?
31.k8 32.k11 33.m13 34.l9 35.q11 36.n13 37.s16
Or 34.m9 35.p8 36.n13 37.l11 38.l7 39.n10
31.k8 32.k11 33.m13 34.l9 35.q11 36.n13 37.s16
appears to be vulnerable to coignhammer attack: 38.r16
then 39.q15 40.p15 41.u17 42.r14
or 39.q17 40.s14
?
I have not analyzed your other variation yet.
31.k8 32.k11 33.m13 34.l9 35.q11 36.n13 37.s16 38.r16 39.q15 40.p15 41.v16 42.r14 43.v12 44.s12 45.t11 46.t10 47.u9 48.q7 49.u5
However:
31.k8 32.k11 33.m13 34.l9 35.q11 36.n13 37.s16 38.r16 39.q15 40.p15 41.v16 42.r14 43.v12 ...
and then 44.t13, threatening w12 or u15... so 45.w14 and then ... 46.s10 47.u9 48.r8 49.u5 50.v9 51.t11 52.u7 53.r10 54.n6 ?
I wonder if this is the line Maciej had in mind. There's probably a simpler alternative.
30.n10 31.k8 32.n6
"So where was the winning move for white at 31.* ?"
twixter's last suggestion seems to work, but it's really long and complicated... Is there a shorter, simpler way?
30.n10 31.m11 how should black proceed?
30.n10 31.m11 32.n6
31.m9 32.l9 33.p12 34.n13 35.r15 and then for example:
31.m9 32.l9 33.p12 34.n13 35.r15 36.q16 37.t16 38.q7 39.n8 40.r14 41.s13 42.s12 43.t11 44.t10 45.u9 46.r9 47.u5  white wins.
I'm really curious why you haven't check 35.r15? Do I made mistake somewhere or it's just a simple white win?
David, I think your solution is not correct :
31.k8 32.k11 33.m13 34.l9 35.q11 36.n13 37.s16 38.r16 39.q15 40.p15 41.v16 42.t13 and then 43.v12 44.s11 or 43.u14 44.s11 45.r13 46.t17
Florian, I agree that 30.n10 was win for black.
for example:
30.n10 31.m11 32.n6 33.q7 34.p5 35.t4 36.r4
30.n10 31.m11 32.n6 33.q7 34.p5 35.s4 36.t8 37.r6 38.p10
I agree my line is busted. I'll keep looking. In the other line, how about 30.n10 31.m11 32.n6 33.p8 34.p5 35.s4 36.q7 37.t6 38.r9 39.r10 40.q11 41.s12 42.r14 43.t15 44.s15 45.r16 46.q16 47.u13 48.t20
looks busted after 41.q17 42.p17 43.r20. But maybe I can fix it!
36.r18 37.r19 and then 38.s15  and I don't see anything White can do. 39.t14 40.q16 41.u16 42.t19, nope.
So it's still a win for black here.
If white does not have a win at move 31, how about earlier in the game?